Ep. 4: Communication tips for the digitally distracted parent
Below you will find the show notes for “Episode 4” of the Communification Podcast.
Tap the down arrow below the player below to download this episode. Mahalo for listening! Welcome to the ohana!
This episode is centered on “parental phubbing” - together, we find out from an expert (Dr. Soo Yun Shin, UH-Mānoa Department of Communicology) what that is, why we should be concerned, and get some research-based tips.
Main takeaways
Research shows that people don’t like being phubbed, and evaluate phubbers negatively.
Research also shows many negative outcomes for children when they are phubbed by their parents.
Not to worry! There are research-based strategies that you can use to better manage the integration of mobile phones in family settings. These include: parental modeling of healthy digital habits, and open communication to discuss and develop shared expectations among family members.
You can read my thesis project paper by tapping HERE.
Time codes
[00:05:15] Why Dr. Shin is passionate about this area of communication research
[00:07:25] Defining terms: PHUBBING, PHUBBER, PHUBBEE?
[00:08:45] How phubbing impacts our communication
[00:12:27] The impacts of phubbing parenting on our children
[00:15:27] What is cognitive dissonance?
[00:17:12] Are the impacts of phubbing on our communication different based on the type of relationship?
[00:19:40] Listener experience from Annie T. in Pukalani, Maui
Finding balance as a mom is difficult
[00:21:18] Research-based strategies to help with the beautification of our communication in this area
[00:25:18] It’s not about always being available to our children, it’s setting the right expectation
[00:26:32] Research shows phubbers become phubbees and vice-versa
Dr. Soo Yun Shin bio
Dr. Soo Yun Shin is an Assistant Professor at the University of Hawaii at Manoa in the Department of Communicology – which is the scientific study of human communication. Her research topics include how technology impacts people’s lives and how people process information online.
Episode 4:
Communication tips for the digitally distracted parent
Malika:
Aloha Dr. Shin. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for joining me for the pilot of the Communification podcast. I’m so excited. And also thank you for being on my thesis committee. I’m so grateful.
Dr. Shin:
Hello, Malika, Thank you for having me. I’m also very excited about your pilot podcast project. I just I think this is wonderful idea. So I hope that I could be a good contribution to this new program.
Malika:
Oh, I’m sure you will be. And actually, on that note, we want to know more about you. So why are you so interested in this field of communication? And specifically how technology impacts communication? Where does that passion come from, and maybe can also tell us a little bit about the things that you’ve studied or enjoy learning about?
Why Dr. Shin is passionate about this area of communication research
Dr. Shin:
I think my passion for communication technology started from my exchange student years. I didn’t have a big dream back then. So I was just figuring out what to do for my future. And then in that school, I met new friends who are actually studying technology. And then more specifically, they were studying something called human computer interaction. And then they told me that later people are going to communicate with machines, our world will be very different. And I was very intrigued by that idea that now we are living in that kind of world like artificial intelligence, Siri, Echo, Google. So, you know the future we were talking about back then, is here. But I think that was kind of the first time I was intrigued by communication and technology and machines. And then nowadays, I’m actually studying a little different aspects like communicating with other people through technology. But I think that the passion with the communication technology started from that experience.
Malika:
Yeah, so much has changed.
Dr. Shin:
Yes. And that’s, that’s why we are doing this podcast, right? Because knowledge is everywhere. And then it’s affecting our lives heavily.
Malika:
Yes. And we need people to examine these issues. We need researchers to be doing this work, but also to teach it. So thank you so much for being here today to share your knowledge with us because it’s just so important. So to start, I will present today’s communication issue. It’s a very common thing. We all do it, or at least from my perspective, I feel like a lot of people do this. Maybe we don’t want to admit it. Perhaps we aren’t even aware we’re doing it. So today’s communication issue is parental phubbing.
And phubbing it’s such a funny word. And I think I learned it for the first time from you in your class. And I remember everyone just kind of giggled when they heard the word, but it describes a relatively serious issue. So would you mind defining the word phubbing for us, P-H-U-B-B-I-N-G.
Defining terms: PHUBBING, PHUBBER, PHUBBEE
Dr. Shin:
So phubbing is actually yeah, a very funny sounding word. And I still also remember that people were giggling. (Laughter) And so it’s a combination of two words. So phone plus (+) snubbing. It’s basically that people get distracted with their phone while they are talking or in close proximity with someone else. So it’s like other people feel like they are being ignored or being snubbed by another person’s phone using.
Malika:
Could you tell me what a phubber and a phubee is?
Dr. Shin:
Yes. Basically, the person who’s using their phone while they’re talking with someone else is the phubber. And then the person who’s being ignored in that incident is the phubbee. So that’s how we define to people is that problematic situation.
Malika:
When I think of that word, phubbing… I automatically have negative thoughts. I don’t know. I feel like it’s almost an attack. I’m not sure if I feel judged or guilty or if it’s something else, but in a general sense, without getting too narrow on the parenting part of it. Is there research that confirms my innate feelings that phubbing is just not a good thing, maybe pointing to concerns or issues surrounding the act of phubbing. And how that impacts communication?
How phubbing impacts our communication
Dr. Shin:
That’s a very good question. So yeah, actually the phubbing itself, not only the words, but the phenomenon itself is quite new to our lives. Because back then when we are talking or in close proximity with someone else, we are only supposed to pay attention to that person. So that is our social norms. And that’s our expectation, but with the phone now we can communicate simultaneously with other people who are not even in the same space and that part is new to our life and therefore the expectation about what to do with that kind of stuff is not very well defined compared to our very traditional way of communicating. So that’s why we are having all this kind of a problem and trouble and concern about how to interpret it and how to deal with it. Am I okay with allowing it to happen to our family or myself is okay to do that or not? Yeah, we all have these issues, because it’s fairly new.
So regarding the impacts of phubbing behavior, there have been a few studies, and especially there have been rising number of studies in very recent years about this phubbing. And one of the consistent finding is that people do negatively evaluate phubber, there was some very fun experiment that they invited people in. And then for one person, the researcher asked the person to use the phone while communicating with another participant. And of course, the other participant who was on the other end didn’t know about that instruction at all.
And then after the conversation, people are asked to evaluate how polite they thought that a conversation partner was, or how socially attractive or how well the conversation went. And then they didn’t like that person very much. They thought that that person is impolite. And they thought that also the communication itself did not go very well.
So yeah, those kind of findings kind of confirm our negative reactions to phubbing.
Malika:
It makes sense. I mean, I feel like I feel all of that. Do you feel those things?
Dr. Shin:
Yes. Yeah, I would hate to see a person who’s sitting right in front of me keep using the phone not looking at me. Yeah, it’s not a fun feeling at all.
Malika:
It really isn’t. But norms are changing. And especially with the Coronavirus and everyone being at home more often. And we’re physically separated. We’re having to use technology even more than we were before. And we were already having issues with phubbing and using our phones at times that maybe some people might perceive as not being very polite, or kind in the way that we’re treating each other.
So why don’t we dive into that more narrow topic. As parents, we spend so much time thinking about our child’s media use, maybe some of you listening can relate to this, it’s how to regulate that, and how to guide them. There’s time limits, and blue light concerns. And we’re just trying to keep up with how quickly technology is changing. But today, we’re going to flip the script, and we’re going to talk about the parenting side of that, the parents use.
So I have a couple of stats that I wanted to share with everyone today to just kind of give us a lay of the land. So 30% of children indicated in a national survey that they wish their parents were less occupied with their devices, 28% reported they consider their parents or guardians to be addicted to their mobile phones. Parents also indicated that they struggle with device distractions. They spend too much time on their phones. In fact, 68% reported that they are at least sometimes distracted by their phone in the presence of their children. So I’m really interested to hear what the literature says about parental phubbing specifically.
The impacts of phubbing parenting on our children
Dr. Shin:
Yes, so especially in this Coronavirus pandemic, we are spending a lot more time with family. And the phubbing could be a very frequent behavior we observe from our family members, there are quite a lot of survey studies that are very recently done, and consistently what they found is that it’s actually not very good for children. So that’s unfortunate news, given the frequency of phone using, for example, some studies found that the more phubbing their parents do, the more depression or depressive symptoms their adolescent children tend to show and then some of the reasons behind it is that by seeing their parents phubbing a lot, they feel like they are less connected with their parents. And then they feel like their parents are not very warm. Or some some people even thought that they are rejecting them.
And then also another study found similar results saying that some children tend to interpret parents or phubbing as something that’s related to themselves. So in other words, they think that it’s their fault. Maybe they are not so interesting, maybe the parents not liking me so much. And that’s why they are not paying attention to me. And then if children start to make that kind of interpretation that could be leading to lower self evaluation. So in their core, they start to think that they are not very worthy.
So these kind of results are very depressing, but also I think, to be very important, because they really show that parents phubbing has real impacts on our children’s lives.
Malika:
Absolutely. I actually did a bit of research before hopping on with you and some other things that came up were increased family conflict, increased child behavior problems, physical safety issues because parents aren’t paying attention, so the response time goes down. The fact that we model behavior as parents for our children, and so when we have what they call problematic internet use or PIU, studies have found that our children sometimes also have that and I saw this other study, it was about feeding infants and device use. And so when parents were using their devices, the parents showed significantly fewer verbal and nonverbal interactions with their children. And those interactions were less encouraging than they would be if they weren’t on their device. So it really seems to span all of childhood.
Dr. Shin:
Yes, I agree. Yeah, just like you said, there were some survey findings that also found the positive correlation between parents or phubbing. With their children’s phone addiction, they are mimicking or modeling their parents behavior in a way we don’t want them to. So yeah
What is cognitive dissonance?
Malika:
And you know, I feel guilty a lot of times too. So there’s that that cognitive dissonance. So for those of you listening, that’s when your ideas and values and beliefs on the inside aren’t quite matching your behavior on the outside. And, you know, it causes you that psychological stress, and for sure, I feel guilt, and sometimes I even judge others, husband (whispered), or the very thing that I’m also sometimes doing.
Dr. Shin:
Yeah, I totally understand that guilt. Because it’s hard to be detached from technology, especially our phones, it’s already a part of our lives in many aspects, but also the children see that behaviors, and then their interpretations might not be as we expected. So that could be problematic.
Malika:
Well, hearing what you have to say about how children can perceive it, it makes sense that we would feel that guilt, because we are so in tune with our children. And so that totally makes sense. It’s cyclical, right? I mean, we’re not feeling guilt for no reason.
Dr. Shin:
Yeah, you might be sensing that a little bit.
Malika:
Yes, well, and you know, it’s not unusual for my kids to ask me to get off of my phone. So that leads me to a slightly different question. I’m wondering if there’s a difference in the way people communicate or perceive phubbing when it’s a close family tie, so someone you’re really comfortable with, and they just call you out? Hey, Mom, get off the phone. And so you know, you just do it, and you still love them? As opposed to an acquaintance or a professional relationship? I’m sure it might be context dependent as well. What are your thoughts?
Are the impacts of phubbing on our communication different based on the type of relationship?
Dr. Shin:
So that’s a good question. So I think we do need more studies to investigate how relationship closeness between the phubber and phubee makes any difference in how people interpret or how people perceive that phubbing behavior. But so far research has been found that it’s not actually making much difference, the experimental study I told you before, they also did a comparison between people they know and people they do not know. But in any of those cases, people still evaluate negatively. So even for the friends, when they see that their friends, their phubbing behavior is brought up, they still do not like and that was actually unexpected, because people thought that maybe you know, for friends, people might be more forgiving, they might more understand or just like you said, if they really do not like they might speak up and then make them turn off their phone or focus on themselves. But that actually was not the case, people still did not like that phubber very much. And there are also other studies like romantic partners.
And then the phubbing behavior between romantic partners has been one of the big factors that drive more conflict and less satisfaction.
And for boss and employee, so in the workplace you see every day, you sometimes see your colleagues or your boss be on the phone all the time. And then some studies actually found that when employees see their managers using the phone a lot, especially phubbing behavior, they also trust that manager less they, tend to engage with that manager less, so lower engagement.
So all this kind of evidence, yes, suggests that maybe we are not more forgiving to those we are close to maybe it could be the other way around even I think because these are the people I really desire attention from. Right. So these are the people I really care about. So if these people show that phubbing behavior, then it’s really affecting me.
Malika:
Wow. Yes, that all makes so much sense. Thank you, Dr. Shin for all of those insights. Well, in order to move into those tangible strategies and research-based tips that we want give everyone at home, and that I want to learn, I thought we would bring in someone from our Maui mama magazine community. She is a mother of three living in Pukalani, Maui. So let’s take a listen.
Listener experience from Annie T. in Pukalani, Maui
Finding balance as a mom is difficult
Annie:
As a mom of three little ones, I feel like the hardest part is dividing my time equally and being completely present with each child, throw my phone in the mix and it’s nearly impossible. I rely on my phone for everything. I also feel the pressure of returning text messages as it’s my only way of socializing with friends during the Covid era. I’m attached to my phone.
When the kids are around, I make an effort to put my phone away because I want to lead by example but it’s been challenging.
Olivia who is five will say mommy put your phone away, or she’ll get really upset. She’s even asked for her own phone and doesn’t get why I won’t buy one for her. Kaia who is three, will hide my phone under a pillow so yes, I definitely have a lot of mom guilt when it comes to using my phone around the kids.
Malika:
I feel you mama… First of all, to all of you listening in right now we’d love to hear from you too… to all the moms and dads out there we are not all in the same boat, but we are in the same storm and sharing our experiences really helps us to feel more connected and not feel so alone in our struggle. So thank you to Annie for being so vulnerable and sharing with us today. I think what stood out to me the most… is the push and pull – the tension – of using our phone for essential reasons- whether that’s to connect with friends, or make appointments, for work… but as Annie shared we’re still trying our best to be good role models. Maybe Dr. Shin you can weigh in here – with some research-based strategies that parents can use to beautify our communication with our children in this area… Annie’s on the right track here, right?
Research-based strategies to help with the beautification of our communication
Dr. Shin:
Yes, thank you, Annie. Just like Malika said, thank you for sharing your experience. I’m sure that a lot of parents can relate to you. And thank you for trying to be a good role model for your kids. Because parents are the best model for children, and their behaviors regarding devices. These days, their habits affect their children’s digital media habits. So definitely being a good role model is an important aim to achieve. And then also there is research backing up that definitely the parents digital device behavior, phone behavior affects children’s behavior, too. So yeah, keep working on that goal. But another thing I would advise based on research is that sometimes it’s a very good idea to set a shared expectation between you and your children.
There are some survey and interview studies that looked into the expectations, children, parents have, for example, if they are watching something together, and if both children and parents share the expectation that the primary attention is not to each other, but it’s for the media consumption, then it’s okay to use phones, because the expectation is that we are not supposed to talk or communicate with each other, we are allowed to use our devices.
But I think it’s important to actually communicate that expectation with your children beforehand, so that you are not letting this go awry, that everyone has a different expectation and that we don’t know what’s going to occur. So try to communicate with your children that for example, if you need to use your phone, check your phone for your work or important business, then communicate that with your children so that the children expects that oh, you are using that phone for this particular purpose. So your primary attention is for work for now. But mom, we’ll come back to you. So yeah, having set the correct expectation that’s being shared among family members will be a key based on research findings.
Malika:
I love that. I actually pulled some research and I it might be the study that you’re referring to. It’s a qualitative study. So they did interviews with 18 parent-child pairs. And the parents reported that they do communicate with their children about technology use, but the kids said,
Oh, yeah, well, my parents communicate with me, but they only tell me what NOT to do. And in most cases, it was reactive and not proactive.
So that’s a really great tip to have that proactive conversation before the thing happens, you know, and to set those shared expectations. And the other thing was that parents had rules for their tech use, but no one was following them. So you know, the parents don’t follow them, the children break the rules, let’s say it’s no phone use at the dinner table, you know, and so people aren’t really committing to the rules that they create or enforcing them. So maybe we just need to get more granular with that conversation to really realize that it’s going to be dependent on context. And we need to work that into our shared expectations so that there can be exceptions like you were talking about, for work or whatever it is, but that we communicate to our kids what that expectation is, and when there are exceptions. I mean, I guess it’s just open communication, really.
And in that study children said it was okay when my parents checked their phones for work. So when they don’t know that you’re checking it for work, they could make up whatever story they want in their mind.
Like you were saying earlier, it’s me, I’m not a good person, that’s why my parent, is not giving me the attention. But if we just say, “oh, mommy has to do work right now. I’m so sorry. I’ll get back to you soon,” that makes a huge difference.
Dr. Shin:
Yes, I totally agree. Of course.
Then “Mommy will come back soon”, that promise needs to be kept.
But yes, definitely I agree that open communication will be the most essential part to solve this issue.
It’s not about always being available to our children, it’s setting the right expectation
Malika:
And there was one other thing in this study, you know, this is just one study. But in this study, the children didn’t necessarily want more attention from their parents, they and I get that, yeah, I get it, right. Like, if I’m on my phone, and they’re on, you know, whatever, playing dolls, or whatever they’re doing, we’re mutually occupied with other things. But when they wanted attention, they wanted that to be reciprocated. So they didn’t want to be phubbed.
Dr. Shin:
Yes, I think that’s a very good point. It’s not that we need to give 24 hour attention, but when they need it, and then when they get phubbed at that very moment, it’s when things can really go awry, definitely it’s important to sense that desire, from family members and from our children give our attention at the correct moments.
Malika:
Oh, well, I know you’re so busy. And I just I need to let you go. I know I do, even though I want to continue talking to you forever. But to recap, I guess what it sounds like is that we need to be more intentional and less reactive. And that’s a good strategy to take when tackling this issue and communicating with our children. Is there anything else you think our listeners would be interested in?
Research shows phubbers become phubbees and vice-versa
Dr. Shin:
I think another thing I like to share about this phubbing is that there’s one research finding says when people see another person phubbing them, they also tend to reciprocate that behavior, they become another phubber. So that’s also something we need to remember that we don’t want our children to be a phubber to ourselves and then to other people. So you don’t want to give that kind of conception that that is fine, because apparently no one likes it.
Just remember that although we are really busy, and we need to use our devices, it’s important to set the boundary, it’s important to have an open conversation about the expectation in the family. And then just remember that my behavior could be reciprocated could be replicated by our children.
Let’s be the first to break the cycle.
Malika:
Yes, we don’t want to set that bad example, we want to try to set a good example, we just skimmed the surface here. So I will provide resources for you as well in the show notes and links. So if you want to read more literature, or find out more about Dr. Shin can go to our show notes. And you’ll have all those resources there. Thank you so much. Dr. Shin.
Dr. Shin:
Thank you Malika for having me. It was really fun to talk with you.
YouTube version
Episode 4 - Communication tips for the digitally distracted parent
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Cameron Brooks photography prints x 5
Oneloa Maui hat, clutches
$100 Amazon gift cards x 4
5 Proact Products Hawaii small solar lights
Samia Surfs Children Book
Each of these actions counts as one entry:
Follow @communificationpodcast on Instagram
Follow @malikaspodcast on Twitter
Follow @communificationpodcast on Facebook
Share the @communificationpodcast on any social channel (tag me @malikadudley so that I can count your entry)
Sign up for my newsletter (you can do that in the sidebar here on this web page, on the home, or about pages)
Leave a comment on the YouTube channel podcast episodes.
For FIVE entries: Write a review for the podcast – share it on social media and tag me so that I see it
**This giveaway is open to anyone in the United States. Winners will be randomly selected and announced on the last day of each calendar month. Details on number of winners, and who has won will be announced on @communificationpodcast social media channels. We will allow one week for a response, after which time a new winner will be selected. This giveaway is in no way associated with any of the social media channels mentioned above. No purchase necessary, void where prohibited. By entering, entrants confirm they are 18+ years of age, and release any of the social media channels mentioned above from any and all responsibility.**