Ep. 9: “I did not love myself” - Unpacking our body image issues with Kimié + Anuhea
Below you will find the show notes for “Episode 9” of the Communification Podcast.
Mahalo for listening! Welcome to the ‘ohana!
Mahalo to Shane and Melissa Victorino for their generous personal donation to the Maui Food Bank. They also have a foundation that helps keiki in need in Hawaii, Las Vegas, Boston and Philadelphia. To find out more about the Shane Victorino Foundation, click HERE. To find out more or to donate to the Maui Food Bank, click HERE.
In this episode we talk to Kimié Miner and Anuhea Jenkins about their body image issues growing up and how social media has factored into that, now that we are adults. We talk through what we learned from Dr. Fardouly, including how we felt guilty and that we could do a better job of showing a good example. Four listeners shared their stories and experiences with us - covering everything from fat shaming to breast cancer to motherhood. Anuhea and Kimié were candid, genuine, and share insights that I’m sure will help you to feel less alone in your own body image struggles. Mahalo for listening and joining the conversation.
I’m searching for my proust writing! Check back! Hopefully I find it soon.
Main takeaways
Body ideals change, as does our own body image
Transparency, authenticity and awareness are key
Designing our social media environment is so important
The relationship between desirability and self worth
A reflection of our own personal struggles, and the strategies we’ve used to overcome them
Time codes
GUESTS: Anuhea Jenkins + Kimié Miner
[00:08:53] GROWING UP WHAT WE THOUGHT OF OUR BODIES
[00:19:13] RE-CAP OF EPISODE 8, LAYING THE FOUNDATION FOR OUR DISCUSSION
[00:20:11] FEELING GUILTY ABOUT USING FILTERS - KIMIE
[00:21:06] TRANSPARENCY IS SO IMPORTANT
[00:24:30] SOCIAL MEDIA CAN BE INSPIRING IF WE DESIGN OUR ENVIRONMENT THAT WAY
[00:26:30] LISTENER FACEBOOK COMMENT FROM CAROLYN
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BEING CALLED FAT AND MEAN GIRLS
[00:30:00] LISTENER EXPERIENCE FROM DANIELLE
STRUGGLED WITH HER WEIGHT, JUDGMENT, AND WARDROBE TEAM AS A PERFORMER IN JAPAN
[00:33:00] MORE BODY POSITIVITY ONLINE NOW
[00:36:15] NOT EVERYONE KNOWS HOW TO CURATE THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA, IT’S A SKILL THAT NEEDS TO BE TAUGHT
[00:40:35] HOW KIMIÉ AND ANU FELT ABOUT THE BODY IMAGE STUDY DONE IN FIJI
[00:44:20] WHO SAYS WHAT IS DESIRABLE OR NOT? THE GAZE OF A MAN
[00:47:25] LISTENER STORY AND QUESTION FROM SERINA
HOW SHE DEALT WITH BODY IMAGE AND CANCER - WHAT IS THE PERFECT BODY?
[00:58:00] LISTENER STORY AND QUESTION FROM TIA
WHAT ARE THE STRATEGIES YOU USE TO STAY POSITIVE ABOUT YOUR BODY IMAGE?
[01:04:37] BEING AUTHENTIC AND SETTING A GOOD EXAMPLE
[01:06:44] GIVING OTHERS GRACE FOR THE SEASON THAT THEY ARE IN
[01:09:13] RE-CAP OF THE RESEARCH-BASED STRATEGIES DR. FARDOULY TAUGHT US
Kimié Miner bio
Kimié Miner is a Native Hawaiian mother of three and a full-time GRAMMY-nominated producer, singer-songwriter, and recording artist. She is the President and CEO of HAKU COLLECTIVE, a full-service, multi-media talent production and management group that she founded in Honolulu, Hawaiʻi. She has written and co-produced five-award-winning albums including the GRAMMY-nominated album, “Hawaiian Lullaby,” and most recently produced “Children of the Sea - Nā Kama Kai” a full-length album from her free music mentorship program called MeleCraft.
Anuhea Jenkins bio
The name "Anuhea" translates from Hawaiian as a fragrance or cool breeze. In the world of island/reggae music, Maui songbird Anuhea Jenkins has been JUST that: A cool breeze to the island music scene. This multi-talented artist entered the room in 2009 like a breath of fresh island air, beautifully blending vibes of reggae, pop, R&B, and even country. After 10 successful years in the music scene, dozens of hit songs and multiple awards, Anuhea remains humble when she's rightfully referred to as one of the top musical artists from Hawai'i of all time.
Anuhea’s Aloha Thyself website
Anuhea’s Podcast “Just Keep Jammin”
EPISODE 9:
Malika:
Hi, welcome to the show. I thought this, the three of us, would be a riveting conversation, mainly because you two are best friends, but you have been since your formative years and that. That's the time period that Dr. Fardouly was talking about in terms of body image and its impacts on our wellbeing. But not just that, we are a part of this generation in our thirties and forties where we didn't have social media, but then we did. So comparing and contrasting those experiences, I think will be super interesting as well. And generally at this point in the podcast, I would lay the foundation and review some of what Dr. Fardouly taught us before we dive in. But I think today we're going to put that on hold just for a little while. We're going to jump into our time machines instead, and remember a time before social media. So what was our body image like? What did we think of ourselves and how did that impact us? So Kimié, why don't you go first? And then we'll have Anu jump in.
GROWING UP WHAT WE THOUGHT OF OUR BODIES
Kimié:
Let's jump right into high school. All of my friends were taller than me, like much taller and we had to wear flats. So I already felt like little shorty, but it was kind of part of my personality. So it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, but it was definitely like a highlighted thing. Right.
When I've thought of my body image, I was like, okay, little Kim. You know?
So that was one thing I was just waiting for my legs to keep growing. That never happened. We were in high school and we were boarders. So it was definitely just comparing ourselves to others at school. And what we saw on TV really like MTV and all of that music videos, I would definitely say I did not love myself or think I was like the bomb.
Anuhea:
I mean, I relate MTV that was like our holy grail. For us, especially in high school, in the dorms, we'd rush back from school to watch TRL and watch the Brittany Spears, "I'm a slave for you" with her perfect abs dancing around. And then all the boys that loved girls like that, you know?
And then I was a subscriber to Cosmo magazine. So I used to look at all the articles and it was very much sexual, like very sexualized and I wasn't a sexual thing in high school, I was pretty much a late bloomer. I didn't have really like a boyfriend that I did anything with.
I was a virgin in high school. Okay. I'll just say it. And so I didn't know anything about sex stuff, and that definitely kind of threw me for a loop when I'm like looking and seeing, is this how I'm supposed to be? Is this how I'm supposed to look? Is this how I'm supposed to act? I was supposed to be this like prowess. So yeah, even though there was no social media, we had our ways of feeling certain types of ways about ourselves, comparing ourselves.
Malika:
Did you ever compare yourselves to each other, or what did you think of each other?
Anuhea:
Well, like Kimié said, her and I were best of friends. We were like inseparable and I'm super tall. And Kimié is super short. So like we never really compared, our body types are completely different.
So it never was like, we couldn't share each other's clothes or anything. It was separate.
Kimié:
Yeah. But I remember one thing was that I always looked at Anu like, oh, she's so beautiful. And I was the little kid, my brother was a senior when I was a freshman. So, I was always looked as the little sister and the little person. And I remember Anuhea was dating one of my brother's friends when we were freshmen, a senior. And I was like, oh, how lucky? Like she gets to, you know, she's beautiful and she's this person that these guys want to be with. Whereas I'm just a little sis.
Anuhea:
You never felt like a grown up, like enough, or something like that... You always felt little?
Kimié:
I felt like I definitely didn't come into my own until after high school and owning my beauty and my worthiness and all of that. It was definitely after high school. It was very awkward in high school.
Malika:
Same. I mean, I think that's a universal thought...
Anuhea:
No, some girls had it going on. I want to say.
Kimié:
I can name who they were, I remember!
Malika:
But do you wonder though, if you were to ask them now, "did you feel awkward in high school?" What would their answer be? I don't know...
Anuhea:
Maybe they'd say, yeah. I'm curious, you got two awkward girls as your guests. Okay. So I don't know.
Malika:
So now we've got a third right over here. So personally I dealt with acne. I was always the tallest person in my class since kindergarten, and I remember I would go to sleep at night and I would hope that I would wake up in the morning, shorter, with clear skin, straight hair, and I wanted to be brown like my mommy.
Anuhea:
I want it to be brown too, girl. I remember that feeling.
Kimié:
I wanted the exact opposite. I wanted my legs to grow. I wanted my hair to be straight. I wanted to be lighter. So weird how that happens!
Malika:
Grass is greener, right? I mean, I remember, talking about Cosmo magazine. I remember I used to do these facial exercises that I learned in Cosmo to make the nose like the bridge of my nose smaller. Now, mind you, this is like cartilage. Like it doesn't move.
Anuhea:
It doesn't work. Who wrote that article? How did they get away with publishing that nonsense?
Malika:
I don't know. And I think one thing for me that even up until recently I haven't embraced is my curls. I know I told you guys, I was going to have my tita bun. So if you guys are watching on YouTube and can see what my hair looks like, but I brought it down because it hasn't been until recently that I've actually embraced my natural hair color, my natural texture.
My first year running for Miss Hawaii, I remember it was all about, you gotta be okay with who I am. So I'm going to just rock the curly hair, take it or leave it. But then I didn't win.
And my 23 year old self, the next year when I ran, decided that what I needed to do to win was to present myself on the outside, in the way that they wanted to see me or that I perceived that they wanted to see me.
So I straightened my hair. I took other people's advice. I think I lost a little bit of myself in the process, you know, and I still struggle with whether being a part of a pageant or in a pageant was helpful or not. For me in the grand scheme of things, I think I'd probably lean more towards, yeah, it was helpful, but maybe more so upon reflection. Thinking about the lessons that were learned in some of my darkest times. I mean, I went on Accutane and so I was pretty depressed for most of my year as Miss Hawaii.
Anuhea:
Oh, Accutane can cause depression?
Malika:
Oh yeah. There are so many side effects. In fact, I don't think it's used anymore because of all the severe side effects that can occur. I mean, you have to be on birth control because if you were to get pregnant and have a child, the child would probably be deformed. That's how crazy this medicine is. I mean, I would spend days on end in the dark, in my apartment with the curtains drawn. Were those days worth it for clear skin?
Kimié:
Yeah. I also got acne my junior year. And so I had like beautiful, perfect brown skin. I was always at the beach and natural, like very natural. And then I started getting acne and I didn't know what to do. I remember that feeling of trying to scratch it off and being like, what the hell is happening, puberty and all of that.
And I still have scars from it, from like scratching, trying to scratch it off. Cause I didn't know how to deal with it.
Malika:
How did you feel on the inside as a person? Like about your body image?
Kimié:
Not beautiful, because you're supposed to be perfect in high school. Right. And I remember too, we'd go to prom and stuff and I would straighten my hair and then put it in a bun. Cause I was like, and I remember actually someone... it was Kahea's date. And he asked me, why do you, why did you like get all pretty and then put your hair up? This guy was always calling me out on not feeling like worthy or good enough. And I would be like, why are you? Like, don't ask me that. You know, but it was the truth. Girl, just let yourself look pretty. I didn't even want to, I would go in the bathroom, wash my hands and purposely not look at myself if someone else is in the bathroom, because I was like, I don't care about how I look like it doesn't matter.
It was like a weird thing that I did. I don't even know why I felt so unworthy.
Anuhea:
We were like rebels. I think we were the anti, everybody else is drinking. We're going to not drink. Everybody else thinks that this is cool. We're going to do the opposite. Everyone else, is going to be super skinny and try to conform for boys.
We would just not, and not care about boyfriends and stuff, but secretly I think we all did care, you know?
It was a defense mechanism for us not to care, but we really did.
Kimié:
But we totally did.
Malika:
Yeah. I'm sure that everyone who's listening is just nodding their heads, nodding their head.
Anuhea:
There's all different groups of people in high school before social media and stuff. And I can only imagine how much more complicated that would be when there's social media now too! Kids are doing that and how excluded people can feel, because you're not invited to these virtual hangouts. It's not even like you can't make it to Kaneohe, so you can't go to that party. Like you can go to this party. But then you're still not invited, oh my God, how sad would these kids feel?
Malika:
Oh yeah, the FOMO is real. Well, and now you can see it all online. We actually talk about this in episode one about how social media is impacting us. And, Dr. Spottswood talks about this model that she created and it's how you observe other people online and you likely are hyper perceiving. So you're perceiving that these relationships are more intense than they actually are.
So for example, one of the things she was talking about was like, oh, you know, maybe you weren't invited to this thing that everyone's posting about. Like maybe it was camping and she was saying, but maybe you said a long time ago, you don't like camping. And so they just didn't ask you, but you're going to hyper perceive. You're going to make these stories up in your mind that it's because I'm not worthy. It's because I am excluded from this. But anyway, now we're going down like a whole other path.
Anuhea:
Cognitive behavioral therapies.
RE-CAP OF EPISODE 8, LAYING THE FOUNDATION FOR OUR DISCUSSION
Malika:
Okay. So clearly we've dealt with body image issues ourselves prior to the invention of social media and it was already hard, right?
So now I'm going to lay the foundation for the rest of our discussion. So in episode eight, body image expert, Dr. Jasmine Fardouly, she spoke about beauty ideals and how they are socially constructed. What is beautiful changes. It changes over time. It's trendy. She referenced that flat butts used to be in, and now big butts are in, for example. We learned about the social comparison theory and that we tend, especially on social media, to make upward comparisons to others, especially celebrities, influencers. We also talked about the psychological impacts and negative outcomes that can result from our poor body image. We talked about age difference, the body positive movement, and finally, she gave us some research based strategies that we could use to better navigate this issue. So let's kick it off with your initial reaction to the lessons you learned from Dr. Fardouly. Maybe Kimié you want to go first?
FEELING GUILTY ABOUT USING FILTERS - KIMIE
Kimié:
Yeah, I definitely felt a little, I was like nodding my head and agreeing, and then I felt a little guilty, like, gosh, how many times have I used the filter instead of just showing up as I am. And for me, the reason why is like "I'm had it." Crazy. And I just have all my kids and I don't want to have to explain that.
Anuhea:
"Had it" is an adjective. Okay. Got it.
Kimié:
I'm like, I don't want to have to explain to everyone every time, "Hey guys, don't mind the crazy face, but I have had no time to get ready." You know, I'm in my jammies right now, just a shirt over like, my life is so chaotic, I barely even go on social media, honestly.
But when I do, I'm like better just add a quick, that's like one of the things I love the most about Instagram or social media now is I can just look like I'm put together without having to do a damn thing. So I liked that, but then I felt bad, like, gosh, but what does that say? What message am I sharing instead of just taking one minute to put something on or fix myself and be my normal, real self.
And so that was a really nice reflection to have after listening.
Anuhea:
Yeah, I felt similar a little bit of guilt because, you know, I know that we were going to talk about all of this and we are on a platform as musicians in Hawaii in our small way. People do look up to us and I had to remind myself of that while listening, like, wow.
The effect that I'm having by me, slapping on a quick filter, cause I'm a mom and I'm "had it," is gonna negatively affect perhaps a young teen, like a young me, who thinks that this is what I look like, or this is what you're supposed to look like as a mom. Like, no, actually, no, when you're a mom, you don't look like this. You need a team of people to help you look like you do on TV, like how those people do, or when you see us on the news or in a music video. It's not that simple, but what I also was justifying it in my head too. Like, we can do that. But then as long as we also show the real as well, if we can have a balance of doing that, but then also showing what we look like without makeup perhaps, or acknowledge that we did do the filter, like, "sorry, I just put a filter on today. So I don't really look like this." Make sure they know.
TRANSPARENCY IS SO IMPORTANT
Malika:
Oh, yeah, definitely the self-awareness and then the transparency, I think are really important. For me, as a content creator when I first got onto social media as a brand, right. You get all kinds of advice and I was tracking my metrics and images of bikini clad bodies do really well.
They do really well. So my consultant and manager of my social media at the time, like this was five to seven years ago, but they said do more of that. And so I did, I didn't even question it, you know? I remember doing before and afters, and though I presented these images as encouragement to postpartum mamas to get moving and as a testimonial, how of like how well pure Barre worked for me and the reaction I got from my followers was very positive and they were telling me that I was inspiring them and encouraging them, but I look back on those and I kind of cringe because they could have been perceived differently by some and potentially cause negative psychological impacts to people.
And so that does bother me and I've definitely changed the way that I post, the way that I show up as an influencer to reflect the things that I now know. You know what I mean?
Anuhea:
Mmm-hmmm, but you have to outweigh the pros and cons. I feel like you've probably inspired so many more people than you've damaged, you know, with those posts and we have to be gentle with ourselves and we're all navigating this too.
We don't really know exactly what we're doing. We're just trying to do our best and live our best life. I think that we all are smart enough to realize that we do have an impact. So these conversations are so important.
This is so, so good. Cause I'm going to have a new perspective on posting from now after listening to Dr. Jasmine Fardouly.
SOCIAL MEDIA CAN BE INSPIRING IF WE DESIGN OUR ENVIRONMENT THAT WAY
Kimié:
I have to say too, that I really liked how one of the women that the soundbite that you played, she was saying like, I'm really encouraged by the people that I follow and because we as older women we design our lives, including who we're following on social media. Right? So I follow J-Lo and I'm like 52, look at her! I celebrate right alongside with her and it brings me joy.
And then I get on my bike and I'm like, yeah. It's encouraging. I loved her perspective on, well, yeah but my 11 year old daughter, she can't even take it, you know? And that's the balance. I love what you just said Anu, because then it's about the balance, right? Like you should be able to celebrate that beautiful postpartum body that you have, just as I should, just the way I am.
And we should all be celebrating the imperfections and the new whatever. And also then the perfections and the good goals. Good and the bad!
Malika:
I think it's the way that you present it too. Being transparent and speaking about it in a way where... it just takes awareness. Once you're aware of the way that you could impact others, especially the three of us, since we are public figures, then if you reflect before you put stuff out, I think that's all that needs to happen.
And it's just kind of like a reflection piece on looking back and just knowing that I really wasn't in that space and probably could have done it better. This is me as a recovering perfectionist nitpicking.
Anuhea:
You've admitted that you're a recovering perfectionist. I think that's adorable. I'm like the opposite.
Kimié:
Yeah. Try go look in your captions. Me and Anu are probably like, "Yassss" cause that's how we are. We're like celebration, women of all the forms, and in all the perfect and imperfect ways, you know and it's about celebrating each other publicly too, which is very, very important that we do that kind of stuff so that people can see like, oh my God, they love each other. This is real, this isn't fake.
LISTENER FACEBOOK COMMENT FROM CAROLYN
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH BEING CALLED FAT AND MEAN GIRLS
Malika:
That is super important and actually I had someone "that posted on Facebook when I asked about body image, Carolyn Maggie Lloyd. So I'll read it to you guys. "I go back and forth with feeling amazing in my own skin and wishing I were more trim. I was told I had a pretty face for a fat chick a lot when I was growing up and even in professional settings, it has taken years to get those voices out of my head. People are so mean and some women love taking other women down a peg, their words, by commenting on weight, which is such a shame.
It's not a competition. I think most of us want other women to win too.
A woman feeling gorgeous and feeling herself doesn't take away from how you should feel about yourself. I love this movement of everybody saying I love my body so shut up about it. It's empowering to see women of all shapes and sizes celebrating themselves.
Kimié:
Oh, I love that!
Anuhea:
That was a good one. Oh, I can relate. Can I just say... I've always struggled with my weight even throughout high school. I've always, never really cared. I was like skinny. And then all of a sudden when puberty hit, I wasn't naturally skinny. The things that I ate stuck onto my body for a change, my boobs got bigger. My butt got bigger. My body changed and I didn't know how to eat for my body type. Literally, cross the threshold of body percentage to be obese, even though I didn't look like it, I didn't feel like it, but they would do like the fat caliper, whatever it's called at PE and stuff. And even though I was an athlete, I played water polo. I did kayaking and swim team, like I was obese.
And those kinds of like categories really, really F messed me up mentally a little bit, especially when you're looking at and you're comparing those to your friends. What was your body fat percentage? Oh yeah. Mine was 22, that means I'm obese. Furthermore, I was told, this was like after high school, when I was just coming out as a musician, like this guy I was dating, he told me something similar to that.
Like, "Oh, you'd be hotter if you could drop like 20 pounds, you'd be like way hotter." This is like right after my first album came out, and you know what. I knew what he meant. Like he was trying to be like constructive criticism, but at the same time, it was the truth, like a little bit, cause I was not comfortable in my skin either.
And that's the thing. If I was comfortable in that slightly overweight, 20 pounds overweight body, I would be like, forget you man. But I wasn't.
My clothes didn't fit right. I didn't feel confident on stage, so I needed to do something about it. And then after lots of lots of struggles, which I'll graze over right now, I finally did kind of get to that, to that weight, but it took a lot of mental strength to really put behind all of the damage that was done verbally. And just to myself in the past, like just loving yourself no matter what your body weight look like, but just wanting the best for your own body. That's really what it came down to for me. I just wanted to feel my best. And that was my motivation at the end of the day.
Malika:
Yeah. Well, I have a listener experience to share about body image and it actually, I think it's the perfect time to share it because Danielle has a reflection to share about being in your industry. It's the music industry. So let's listen.
LISTENER EXPERIENCE FROM DANIELLE
STRUGGLED WITH HER WEIGHT, JUDGMENT, AND WARDROBE TEAM AS A PERFORMER IN JAPAN
Danielle:
Thank you so much for having me on the show.
When I was 14, I signed with Sony music Japan as a member of a J pop girl group. I went from living on a ranch on the big island to living the life of a pop star in Shibuya, Tokyo between the long days and being very homesick I resorted to comfort eating. So I gained a lot of weight.
I would often get told that I had to lose weight by our management team when we would show up to a TV show or a music videos and even our concert tours, the clothes that they brought in for me never fit like never, ever, ever. They were always too small and I would literally have to squeeze into them.
And often the pants or skirt would be very difficult to zip and sometimes it wouldn't zip it all. I would pull my top down and pray that no one would notice my bottoms were undone. I was really embarrassed to show my friends and family back home our music and tour videos, because I hated how I looked.
This is actually the first time that I'm sharing this. And it wasn't until a few days ago when I was telling Malika these stories that I realized actually how horrifying it was. And I thought to myself, why didn't these costume women ever take my real measurements and bring me options that actually fit?
Like why was I always forced to squeeze into these costumes? Now social media has taken over our lives, but can we use these platforms as an opportunity to share real body images as opposed to fake or perfected ones? Do you notice it happening more? And what are your thoughts?
Anuhea:
Those Japanese are savages when it comes to body image. And I can attest to that too. I was told I was too big for the Japanese, like physically I was too big when I went and toured in Japan the first time, like a Sony records executive told me that. So Danielle, I feel you girl, it's hurtful.
Kimié:
I lived in Hong Kong and I was tiny and I was a size medium or large.
And I just was like, I don't understand this. If I am this, then what, I don't understand what a small is.
You know, it's just such this weird perception on size and I don't know, it's just crazy.
Malika:
Yeah. And Dr. Fardouly was saying that that Dove study showed that it's normative, that we are dissatisfied with our bodies.
So what that means is more than five in 10 young people are unhappy with the way they look. But in Japan it was nine in 10.
Anuhea:
That's so sad. It's heartbreaking.
Malika:
Right. And so going with her question, do you think you see it more now? Do you see more body positive, more real bodies online?
MORE BODY POSITIVITY ONLINE NOW
Kimié:
I have to say a hundred percent. Yes. My sister is a plus size model now and she got into that this year actually, or maybe in December of last year, but within the past year. She's getting hit up for bikini things and Roxy, I mean, she's doing all kinds of body positive modeling and things, and people are measuring her so that they can make better fitting clothes for bigger girls.
And they're using her body as the image, you know, the modern day model image. And that is so exciting for me. She has two daughters who are also not skinny and little, they're bigger girls. They're Samoan, they're Hawaiian, they're like all the Polynesians and you know, beautiful girls. And it's just beautiful. And it's inspiring to see their mom with her natural curly, big curly hair. Full body, in a suit next to other models of different sizes and shapes, and to really feel that sense of pride.
Anuhea:
You think about our parents? I think like our parents' generation, you had to be skinny, skinny, skinny. And then when we were in high school, it started to get a little more like athletic, like the Roxy models were pretty popular, right? Like you could get away with having a booty. Jennifer Lopez kind of started coming out and that was kind of a little more normal, but now I feel like it is more normal to have a variety of bodies.
Kimié:
I'm watching New York fashion week.
There's big girls on New York fashion runway. Rihanna has her Savage Lingerie and there's like sexy models and they're full-figured and it's very exciting to me in my postpartum mom bod to be like, oh, I can't wear that too.
Anuhea:
You make that in my size? Because basically that's what it is. Like they don't even make it in a variety of sizes. They just have whatever the hell they chose.
Malika:
Right. And that's a part of the problem, right? Is that the ideals that are being chosen are by big multi-million dollar companies that their whole aim is to make you feel dissatisfied with the way you look so that you wll buy more face cream, more, you know, whatever it is. Right. I have definitely also noticed that. But one thing probably to layer onto that conversation is what Dr. Fardouly said about how we control our environment. So there could be 5 million body positive accounts out there, but if you're not following them and you're not, that's not the content you're consuming and that's not your environment on social media, then it's not having an impact on you.
If you are just following the influencers that do completely change the shape of their face and body, you know, then you'll have a totally different experience from someone who has a different environment. And then you layer on top of that, the psychological place that you're at... even age, right? So younger developmentally, or as we have been discussing, that now we feel so much better in our bodies. Right. But back ,when we were younger...
NOT EVERYONE KNOWS HOW TO CURATE THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA, IT’S A SKILL THAT NEEDS TO BE TAUGHT
Kimié:
But that's actually not true for every woman of our age either. And so I think I was, I think I was wrong to be like, you know, we all curate our thing. That's not true. Like we don't all do that. Sometimes we still...
Anuhea:
I don't think people know how...
Kimié:
Yeah. And, I'm so sorry for doing that, but I have become super intentional for myself about who I follow. And I unfollow people when I see something that I don't like, and I don't care if it offends them. I mean, they're all like celebrities and stuff, but I am super conscious of who I'm following, because I understand that like you are who you hang around with, whether it's real life or on social media. I really take that serious, you know.
Anuhea:
We need to spread that message more, I think, follow the right people. And I honestly, I would just have to chime in real quick, that is a big goal of mine to create a hub, like a website hub. And I have it already, it's called AlohaThySelf.com and I want this hub to be like a one-stop shop for you to get like quick information on who to follow on Instagram, to help with body positive stuff. If you're feeling sad, listen to this music, that's a curated playlist for breakups or listen to this speech by somebody it's kind of like something we can all contribute to... this website, AlohaThySelf. Following the right people is so important. I don't follow the right people, I follow like some idiots sometimes like a lot of like memes that are also kind of offensive and like make you feel like a piece of doo doo sometimes.
Kimié:
Sometimes you can follow those and not, and take it like a grain of salt, like ha... you know? Like it is about perception.
And I really want to acknowledge that because like an 11 year old has no idea about this crazy world. Right? And so her perception is limited. And so it's very important that her parents are curating what she's seeing versus someone who's well-traveled and seeing the world, and still needs to protect themselves, but has more freedom and more perception to view things as they really are, instead of taking everything in.
But I literally like won't even follow certain people that I know what they're going to post, even though I love their music, even though I love things about them. I can't, because if I happen to swipe and see that, I don't want to take that in because I'm an artist I'm super hypersensitive to the world. And so I have to like filter out.
Malika:
Yeah. You know, Rachel Sutton? She's a casting director here in Hawaii and we had a conversation once and she was telling me that her daughter, what she does is she does that exactly. She curates her daughter's social media and so together, and this was so smart and we heard it from Dr. Fardouly, that this is exactly what you should be doing based on research.
They go in and they look at who is a positive role model online. And so she follows Demi Lovato and people like that, that will be a positive influence on her daughter. And then the other thing that you were talking about Anu about people, maybe not knowing how to curate their feeds, you can unfollow sure when it gets to be relational, where it's maybe someone that you know, or maybe even someone that you love, you can also use the mute button.
So that is one that maybe just relationally, as far as communication goes, since we're talking about communication on this podcast... where you can, where there's a middle ground. We communicate with these people on a daily basis and maybe online we aren't ready to have a conversation about how they impact us, but in order to protect your own space, your own self, your own mental, emotional, maybe even physical self, right. That you can use this tool... where it won't disrupt your relationship, because they won't know that you've muted them, but you're still taking control of that.
Anuhea:
Yeah. I honestly love that. That's like a healthy boundary that no one has to have hurt feelings over. And if you want to unmute it, you can reverse that when you feel strong enough.
Cause some certain times of the month, I'm more sensitive than others. And other times I can handle, like seeing my, my real Housewives of Beverly Hills. So I follow some of them, and then certain times of the month. I'm like, I just cannot with you right now. And then sometimes I'm like, I wonder what they're doing? Cause I'm feeling good. You know?
Kimié:
That's a good plan.
HOW KIMIÉ AND ANU FELT ABOUT THE BODY IMAGE STUDY DONE IN FIJI
Malika:
How did you guys feel about that Fiji study? I just thought that was so interesting that she brought it up. And as Pacific Islanders, Native Hawaiian women, to see how there is actual research out there talking about how Western television before, and after it was introduced and how that impacted body image.
And we know that a lot of Pacific island cultures really celebrate you as you are.
Anuhea:
Well fed is associated with royalty, in ancient Hawaii.
Kimié:
Many cultures, not just in Hawaiian cultures, like almost every other culture that is a thing, right. It's a sign of wealth and it's a sign of beauty.
Anuhea:
And just like physically, like the way that our bone structure of a Hawaiian or Polynesian, or African-American sometimes. Everyone's different, like dainty or smaller, petite or bodies, maybe with the Asian culture, maybe Fijian, maybe bigger. We all have different predispositions body types.
That's just part of what life is like. And so I can totally imagine people who are the certain culture, a certain ethnicity feeling like what can I do? Cause no matter what they do, they can starve themselves, but they still will never have this body type that they see on TV just simply because that's not who they are.
That's not what their culture is. That's not their ethnicity. So sad.
Kimié:
For me. I mean as a Native Hawaiian who didn't look like everyone else, you know, and my nose just like you my nose I was like, gosh, if there's big Hawaiian nose, I mean, it wasn't something I wore with pride. It was something that I was ashamed of.
In fact, I wasn't even proud to really be Hawaiian until later on in my life. Like my dad, wasn't a proud Hawaiian and that's something that's historical for us as Native Hawaiians. But I also didn't like how I looked comparatively, like to what I saw. So I understand it first hand what these Fijians felt.
But they were so much more immersed in their culture and who they were in the beauty of themselves. And then to all of a sudden have this portrayed image and try to attain that. It's devastating. It can be really hard on people. And it was something that I definitely dealt with too.
I really loved how she talked about how worth was based on desirability, and that is such a huge, like heavyweight, if you think about that, right?
I don't feel worthy unless I'm desired. What a statement, you know, what a strong, strong statement.
And then you can have friends who are like, you are so amazing just as you are. And like, wow, I see the beauty of you. Me and Anuhea just had this conversation where I'm like, you're literally like a crystal. That's like sending rainbows around the room. How amazing to have that kind of conversation, but inside to know that at one point I didn't feel worthy enough. And I felt like, gosh, I don't want to be who I am. I want to be what they're showing me. I want to be someone else instead of just really owning that worthiness. Not about desirability, but truly about value. And your real worth.
WHO SAYS WHAT IS DESIRABLE OR NOT? THE GAZE OF A MAN
Anuhea:
Who was saying who like, I mean, who is desiring who? That's the kind of my big question, which I want to teach my kids...
Malika:
Who makes up the rules? Who says this is beautiful and that isn't, this is desirable, and that isn't.
Kimié:
That is the biggest question today with the me too movement with the black lives matter movement. It's like, listen, it's honestly BS. It's BS.
I haven't cried so much in my life thinking about these structures that were built by, you know who.
I'm tired of those. I'm tired of them deciding on what is worthy, what is beautiful, who deserves what in this society? And we are asking all the right questions today. And we, as women are leaders in that movement. And it's amazing.
Malika:
That desirability part. Oh my gosh. It's so heavy. When you said that, because I don't think she said it in exactly those words, but you, I think got to the heart of it. You summarized it.
I'm going to cry. I that's how I felt in high school, I felt undesirable. It was all about whether or not I could get the gaze of a man.
Kimié:
Me too.
Malika:
If I felt worthy or not. I actually wrote a, it was called a Proust writing in freshmen year. And then we put it away and we were supposed to open it like 10 years later or something.
I ended up opening it way after that. It was so sad to read the words that I wrote about myself. It was just these boys don't like me and so I'm not worthy. That was the gist of it. The gist of it was like, I can't have a boyfriend, nobody likes me. Even my friends don't like me very much. Blah, blah, blah.
Anuhea:
I read my hello kitty diary. I'm so thankful that I did have a diary pretty much from seventh grade, even in sixth grade, all the way through high school. And I documented who liked who, who was with who? And it was, it is heartbreaking, same kind of thing like that, like where you're like revolving your whole entire life around boys or the desirability of your own self. And that's like so sad. I wish I could slap myself.
Kimié:
I think that's what I felt as the little sister was like, well, I'm never going to be desired. I'm always just going to be like the middleman or the connector for my brother's friend and some other girl, one of my friends, but it'll never be me. And then on the bigger scale, like in college, I'm just like this Hawaiian girl, like no one cares about me. I always felt that way, always.
Until I really came into my own and it really was my connection to my culture that showed me like, whoa, we're such a beautiful culture. We're such a beautiful people. My hair, my nose, my, oh my gosh. Like, this is cool. And then becoming a mom times a million when you're like, look at how beautiful my kid is. I don't want any of that crap to fall on her shoulders that I had on my shoulders.
Malika:
Oh, this is the perfect segue into my next sound bite. So I'm going to play it now.
LISTENER STORY AND QUESTION FROM SERINA
HOW SHE DEALT WITH BODY IMAGE AND CANCER - WHAT IS THE PERFECT BODY?
Serina:
Hi Anuhea, Kimié and Malika. Thank you for having me on the podcast. I wanted to share my story about body image.
I've always been very self-conscious about my body. I had small breasts. I was skinny and my hair was always so frizzy. I always wanted that big breast look so my shirts would look nice on me and not be just so saggy. My hair always had to be straightened as I didn't want it to get wet because it would just totally frizz out.
I would see women on social media with these, what I thought, was perfect bodies. The long luscious hair, the big breasts, and just nice bodies. And I really wanted that.
Well, in 2019, I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer. I lost my hair and at first I was mortified because hair is a really big part of a woman's appearance and here I am being bald. I did my chemo and then I had to remove both of my breasts due to me having the BRCA 2 gene, a few months after that, I had a full hysterectomy. At just 39 years old I started feeling depressed. How could I be losing all of my womanhood?
But for some strange reason, all of this gave me a sense of confidence I never knew a had. Hair and breasts that really didn't matter. My health was more important. I was just lucky to be alive now.
Now, I'm okay with being flat. I don't hide it. I wear tight shirts. I'm comfortable and I'm not even embarrassed. My hair... I don't even care if it gets wet because it's just hair.
Social media, to me portrays these women, having these perfect bodies. To me, I feel I have a perfect body and I'm comfortable with it, but what is a perfect body?
Anuhea:
I love her.
Kimié:
I actually cried when I first heard this. I cried just because it really puts it into perspective yeah when you think like, gosh, what are you focusing on? Right. Living, your health, all the things to be grateful for, like the things you desire the most, right?
Malika:
What is the perfect body?
Anuhea:
Such a good question. There is no such thing, first of all. I think that each person's individual goals for what they want their bodies... This is a vessel for our souls, right? Like our body is just a monkey body in a deeper being. But I truly, this is something that I wanted to get into. So I'm happy. We're kind of segwaying about the breasts and that kind of stuff.
Like I've changed my body. This is not my real hair. I've gotten a boob lift after I breastfed my children, I've gotten my boobs done and lifted and augmented, and I get Botox and those kinds of things. But I still feel the same way that I've been feeling this whole time, as far as like, we should love ourselves for who we are and you know, little kids love your bodies, love yourself, shake my old high school self for caring so much about what people thought.
I still feel those ways. I can feel both ways because I believe that we have one vessel to carry our souls around and we gotta be happy with it. And as long as we're in the right headspace, as we're making these changes, I don't think there's anything wrong. So it's talking about the most basic thing, your health, like she could have died from breast cancer. But she didn't need to get boobs again. She lost her breast. She doesn't need to get them again. She felt perfect in her own body. She had the perfect body, then God bless her. And that's her perfect. You know what I mean? And it might be different from what I think my perfect body is.
I'm close to feeling my perfect body cause I'm almost to my ultimate confidence in my life right now I look the way that I want to look almost there. And I'm not rail skin, skinny, you know, everybody has a different perspective of what that is. But I think that to each their own.
Kimié:
Yeah, I think for me it was about seasons. Like when I listened to her, it was like, gosh, this just reminds me of seasons because I have been like super. On the top of my game, all of those things, super healthy. And then I went bam and had three kids back to back and I literally watched my body transform three times in a row.
And every time it was like, whoa, and it was different. And honestly, like what is a perfect body?
Like Anu said, it's about the head space and then it's about the heart space. Like I think it's like connecting those two pieces together and just feeling alignment and feeling like, you know, my body's carried me where I am today.
It just carried three babies out of my body. Like, whoa, that's so crazy. So this body I have right now is perfect because of the season that I'm in. Yes, I want the 52 J-Lo body. Yes, that's the next season, you know? So I think it's about not just looking at only one point in your life, but looking at your life as seasonal, just as your body is the vessel, right?
Let's say you're on a canoe. There's going to be flat surfaces, there's going to be crazy waves, tidal waves.
We need our body to change to what our environment is and to where our heart and our headspace is at. And I think that's why I cried was because at the heart of the matter, it's like you're alive and you're still able to do the things you want to do. And your body's here to carry you there. Whatever it looks like that to me is the perfect body.
Malika:
I guess, layering on the health element, right. That having a healthy body for whatever that is and whatever season you're in. Personally, I'm skinny and that's my body image thing that people used to call me, anorexic.
I wasn't anorexic. I was just skinny, you know, but no matter what weight I'm at, I have my bones stick out over here. And so I like to wear tops that cover my bones. I feel fine in my body and I feel I don't need to change it or anything, but that helps me... for Anu it's the boob lift, for me it's the high neck shirts. And then I can, I feel like then I'm a little more free in myself. It's the awareness, right? The head and heart, but it's the awareness of going okay well, that thing does actually kind of bother me.
Maybe I still need to work a little bit more on the inside at being okay?
But by doing that, it actually helps me to get there and to be not self-conscious and just be myself in whatever space it is. And then again, it's the people you surround yourself with. If the people you're around don't care and they truly... like you belong with that group, because it's the love like that you guys have for each other. And calling her crystal and all of that. That's what we all need and want. We all need and want an environment where we are a crystal to each and every person that's around us and that we feel like that about other people, because it doesn't even matter what the vessel looks like. Just be healthy, you know, like I think we want, we do want health for each other.
Anuhea:
Health. That's a perfect body.
Kimié:
In the season you're in.
Malika:
Like that's the fine line is I think when we start to get into health, that sometimes people think they're being constructively criticizing and maybe from their perspective they are. And then again, like you were Anu reflecting on when your ex boyfriend had told you, you know what he said to you, and that you felt like, oh, there was truth in that. And so it's so complicated and nuanced. And so the perfect body is whatever you think it is and go girl, thank you for inspiring us with your story.
Kimié:
Yeah. I remember Anu telling me too, when you look good, you feel good. That really stuck with me when you said that Anu... I know it's like a common phrase, but hearing it from you, you know, because we do have to present ourselves on stage and we do have to carry our, this body is carrying us around all over the place.
And so yes, if I can double Spanx, I will, like all the things, you know, like we have to do the things that make us feel good. So when we do look good and show up at our best, we feel good. We're able to shine the light, even brighter than if we didn't feel good, then the lights a little bit more dim.
And for me, it's been hard because I've had to... My body just changed so much in the past three years, it was so traumatic, honestly, to my body. My doctor's like, what the hell are you doing? This is crazy. You're not supposed to do this. That wasn't planned but it happened. And now I'm just trying to figure out how to get back to a healthier life now, postpartum.
Right? So I'm still dealing with like hair falling out and then this like the extra baggage, the extra weight. And even my piko is bigger. And I'm like, how do I, what do I do with this thing? You know, like, everything is just different.
Anuhea:
You're not used to like dressing for a certain body type. You have to like relearn all of that.
Kimié:
And I was like holding onto all my prenatal, before I got pregnant clothes. And now I'm like, you know what? Okay. It's been three years of pregnancy. I used my same maternity clothes. That was great. But then now, just let go of the prenatal stuff. Like you have to buy bigger clothes, Kim, you can't just stick into your maternity clothes... So that has been a really nice moment for me is to understand the seasons and to be like, yes, one day we'll get back there, but then just go buy new clothes. Just be happy that you have these kids and that you have this body to carry you around and that you can still do the things that make you happy. I actually love to work out and it makes me feel happy, but I just have to make the time, like I literally have to schedule it in my crazy day. Like, don't forget time for mom, time for yourself.
Get back to you... and it's not about getting back about finding, discovering the new season, the new you.
Malika:
I totally agree. I think for me it wasn't about getting back, but I did want to, because I'm practical and I don't want to buy a whole new wardrobe. I just want to fit back into my clothes. It doesn't matter what weight I am. I just want to be able to use those clothes again.
Anuhea:
Cause I don't want to spend money. Yeah.
Kimié:
I was the same and I had the cutest clothes.
Anuhea:
You go to a clothes swap. You can swap clothes with other women.
Malika:
That's true. Well, maybe not with COVID. I don't know. Well, this goes right in line with our last soundbite, which is all about mommy hood. So here is Tia.
LISTENER STORY AND QUESTION FROM TIA
WHAT ARE THE STRATEGIES YOU USE TO STAY POSITIVE ABOUT YOUR BODY IMAGE?
Tia:
This is Tia from Geeky mama studios. First off, thank you so much for having me on the podcast today. And I do actually have a question, in relation to the body imaging and being on social media. I am someone who loves being on social media, and often on social media, but I'm also a mom of two, and I am very subconscious conscious of my new mom body that I have, and I love, but I do too struggle with body imaging issues or just, you know, daily reminders to remind myself, to love my body and all the things that us mamas go through.
But my question for you would be, I was wondering if you have any strategies that you use personally to help keep you positive, not just about your body, but about yourself and also being a mama would love to see what you think. Thanks so much for having me.
Anuhea:
I mean, you're the one with the three kids in three years mama.
Kimié:
Well, you go first.
Anuhea:
Okay. Well, I was going to just say, when we're talking about healthy bodies, I definitely just want to make sure that we're talking about mental health as well. Not just physically, what you think is healthy because there's some big girls out there who could probably kick your butt in a mile run, but who just love themselves, they are so mentally healthy that they can just dance across the stage and, you know, talking about like Lizzo and even all my male friends who are dressed in drag and could like dance and just feel so confident.
Those kinds of mentally healthy bodies are inspiring to me too. That would be one technique, one thing that a mommy who is still struggling with their new body could really just make sure that they're tapping into is making sure that they're mentally healthy, whether it's getting therapy, whether it's getting out of a bad, toxic relationship, like you said, surrounding yourself with people who are supporters.
Like I was just talking about this on my podcast, actually like talking about toxicity and making literally a list. Sometimes you have to do that, like a list of the people in your life and categorizing them, the people who are toxic or they do not serve your best interest and the people who are serving you and as blunt and bold as that may seem, that's kind of important.
I mean, it's very important, and you got to figure out ways to keep them at bay, whether it's muting them on Instagram. You know, or having a hard conversation, whatever it may be. But yeah, that's one thing for the mamas. Keep your head right.
Kimié:
I love that. Yeah. I have to just resonate.
I love that so much because I think the tool and the tactic is what's your vision? Who do you want to be? What do you see for your next month, your next five months, your next five years, and then who are the people around you that are going to get you there?
Whether a buddy to work out with, if that's your goal, or it's someone that you want to cook healthier, so they're going to... like finding those people that are going to build you up instead of breaking you down and being like, well, you are gross. And if that's the kind of people you have around you, you have to have boundaries and you have to figure out a way to not have that, because that is really the key to everything. Just like Anu said I have to just resonate that it's about the people or the social media that you take in.
Anuhea:
Or your man, like your other half to make sure that he loves you and understands and appreciates what your body did to give, what you gave him.
Malika:
Oh, absolutely. And I feel like you attract what you give out. And so that is in life, but also on social media, the way that you show up on social media is going to be reflected back to you. And I definitely saw a shift when I became more aware and started really thinking about it critically about, okay, well, why am I posting this? And what message would I like to send with this? And it was so amazing to have people, I mean, strangers, but also friends and even acquaintances that would reach out. I remember there was this one time I was having a really, really tough time and I went live and I was crying and you know, it was some relational stuff. Right. And I had three or four people that I knew, but had no idea that anything was going on in their lives. And they were just like, oh my gosh, thank you so much for sharing that and for being open, I feel like you, and I thought I was all alone. And so you end up seeing, even within your own circle, that we just, we really don't know people that well, because we don't have conversations like this.
These are the types of conversations we have to have more of. So I hope that anyone who's listening, this will open up a conversation for you to have with your circle, because you know, we talk logistics. This happens in our relationships too our partnerships, right? Like it's every day is like, we're going to get the kids, go to school, you gotta feed them. It's just so routine, logistical... we don't go deep. And it's so important to go deep. So anyway, I'm going off on a tangent, but…
The way you show up on social media is what you get back. And if you don't get it back from people, then they should go ahead and mute you or block you or unfollow you because you don't need that energy. You don't need it. You attract what you give out.
Kimié:
100%.
I think that it's so important that we don't try to please the masses, you know, we just have to be our true, authentic selves, our most vulnerable, true selves and vulnerability is really the courage to be yourself. It's the courage to be authentic.
That's, that's what vulnerability is. And I think that that's what people love the most, you know, whether you're like Cardi B, she is her authentic self and she has her following that loves that. And then there's people that don't, and that's fine. But the beautiful thing is you don't have to take that in. You don't have to engage with that. You don't have to connect to that at all. You can find your tribe, your crew, and that's you... like, I love that. I love that about social media.
Anuhea:
Stop hating on each other girls. I don't like that either. We got to figure out a way to make girls stop, trying to compare and drop down couple pegs, as was said. Right?
Like, why do we do that?
BEING AUTHENTIC AND SETTING A GOOD EXAMPLE
Kimié:
Well, I think we can just be an example, right? I think Anu, you and I and Malika, like all three of us get to be a great example of what to do instead.
Malika:
Well, and what's interesting too. And Dr. Spottswood talked about this in episode one, and I loved this perspective shift because I struggle with, because I am so conscious about how I present myself because I want to be authentic and vulnerable. And so I start to get into this like meta analysis of wait, but am I still authentic? Cause now I'm trying so hard to be authentic. But think of it this way, when you are your work self or your brand self or your mommy self or your whatever, all the different roles you have...You are your authentic self in that role.
And so you don't have to be so... thinking too much or be so judgmental on yourself.
Kimié:
I have to say, that's so Anu though, on social media, I love Anu on social media because she's all over the spectrum and never know what I'm going to get. In the morning. I'm like, wonder what Anu posted today?
Malika:
Doesn't mean it's not authentic, right?
Kimié:
Like, no, you are so dang authentic that you're not even looking at metadata and metrics. And that happens to be why so many people resonate with you and love you. And that's why I love you is just like, there is no it's not calculated. It just is. And that's the place that we want to be, not to say that I don't love data because data rules you know this Malika as the weather girl. And you can see, you can use it to analyze, like what's working, do more of it. You know what I mean? Like that's basically what you can take away from that.
Anuhea:
Post more bikini shots!
GIVING OTHERS GRACE FOR THE SEASON THAT THEY ARE IN
Malika:
So the other thing is, is that when the person that wants to always post bikini shots that are filtered does that, that is actually a representation of their authentic self. Like they, that might be who they actually want to be and present. And we can also give them grace for the stage that they're in, in life.
Kimié:
That's their season.
Anuhea:
Yeah. I feel that too. I feel that compassion for people you can't hate on them, no matter what they're doing, even if they are manipulating their body and hurting people in the process.
It's not, that's not their responsibility necessarily to think about every single person in the world. Maybe it's ours because we are public figures and we think that way, but it's not necessarily every public figures truth.
Malika:
Well and to have that self-awareness of just being able to recognize that and go, okay, you know, that's not for me, and this is how I'm going to present myself, but I don't need to hate on someone who's doing it this way.
And actually that leads me to my last topic of the evening, which is that one of my biggest takeaways was when Dr. Fardouly talked about when we manipulate our own image. And I'd never really thought of it from that perspective that by using a filter on my face, that I'm essentially treating myself as an object and Glennon Doyle once said, the world offers privilege for pretty, and that people need to start being the subject of their own lives. I'm going to cry... instead of the object of everyone else's life.
Anuhea:
I love her
Malika:
So heavy to think about that. I mean, we don't even have to talk about it. We can just let that live. And like, let's all just kind of reflect on that.
Anuhea:
Say it again. Will you, can you please say that quote one more time please?
Malika:
Yes.
She said, “the world offers privilege for pretty and people need to start being the subject of their own lives instead of the object of everyone else's.”
Anuhea:
That is making me want to cry too. Cause it's like own your life. One life to live people. It's yours. Go get it and make it your own. Kimié: And love your body in every season. It's okay that it's not where you want it to be right now. It's the season that you're in and it's the vessel carrying you over the tidal wave. And once you get over that, tomorrow's a new day, you know, it's that mentality and that vision.
RE-CAP OF THE RESEARCH-BASED STRATEGIES DR. FARDOULY TAUGHT US
Malika:
Oh my gosh. Well, to button up our time here, the research phase strategies that were shared by Dr. Fardouly were to construct a body positive environment for yourself on social media, with regard to what you consume and what you create, to unfollow or mute accounts that portray unhealthy beauty ideals, or trigger you in some way. To think critically about why someone is posting that, who benefits, is it sold? Is it an ad? To detox from social media is a good strategy if you need that. When it comes to our children, we can be good role models and teach them these strategies. Like the ones we just outlined. We can have open conversations with them and we should keep our eyes open for any signs that our children are having issues with their body image, so increased anxiety or the way they talk about their bodies, things like that.
And I know the three of us all have children that are quite young still, and not yet on social media, but as mamas of children that are growing up in this world that is something that we're going to have to think about sooner rather than later.
Anuhea:
Boys and girls too. So let's just be ready for it. Wow.
Malika:
All genders, every spectrum, you know, we're all impacted. I think the research she was quoting was that young girls tend to, it's more often a problem for young girls, but if boys or other genders are doing the comparing on social media, the impacts are the same. So that's just really important to I think distinguish that. Anything you guys want to share, any last words that might be important to this discussion?
Kimié:
I think for boys when we think of body image and things like that because we're females. Right? So we've been just talking about it from the female perspective, but I think for boys, it comes to strength. It comes down to strength and like, well, what can you do? Right. It's very like physical attributes, things that show that you are strong enough, you're capable enough.
And so that's like a whole other side of the spectrum, right. That we didn't really discuss, but that matters too. I liked that she brought that up, you know, if guys use filters and other guys see it, then they're like, oh, or, you know, if guys are watching guys doing guy things like it's the same, it has the same impact as females. And it's important to acknowledge that.
Malika:
I actually have an episode coming up. It's a cyber bullying episode, but one of the perspectives that the researcher shares is about how men and women or boys and girls present themselves online. And it's to be... again, going back to desirability it's to be, I am sexually ready to reproduce. And that is why a man will show their six pack and that they're symmetrical. And then a woman accentuates the breasts and the, all the parts of the body that are good for reproduction. Anyway, again, like you said, this is a whole other, we could be on here for two more hours. Anu, do you have any last words?
Anuhea:
Oh man. This has just been so good to get it off my chest.
I'm so happy to have had this platform to talk with some of my favorite people about such a subject that is not very much talked about, but that has impacted me so much in my life. This is inspiring and I hope that other people are getting stuff out of it too. Just knowing that you are enough, your body is enough. It's a vessel. You can take care of it, keep it healthy and make it look the way you want. But it's yours. You got to just love it and nurture it and take care of it.
Kimié:
And find the people who love it just as it is too, that love you just as you are and surround yourself with that environment.
Malika:
Oh, I love you two. Thank you so much for your time. I'm going to end on this quote that Dr. Fardouly basically started her episode with, and it was "from a young age we're taught that being physically attractive is important for our self-worth and that if we're attractive, then we're going to be happy and have successful lives. And in reality, that is just not true."
Kimié:
Amen. Sister!
Malika:
Let that sink in. Okay. I'm going to let you go. It's late, I know.
Kimié:
This was a really good conversation. Thank you so much.
Anuhea:
I don't want it to be over, but yeah, it is over.
References
Please view the show notes for Episode 8 for academic references mentioned in this episode.
The YouTube version of Episode 9:
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